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NWB - For Bands Only?

Filed Under : Rants

Posted By : mr.nwb | Comments : 32

Are we losing focus?


There's been a blog today about having a Trades section on the site, whereby NWB members could post an advert of the trade they work in e.g Plumber, Joiner, Electrician.

This has been brought up in the past many times, however, I've always decided against having a trades section in the fear it would dilute the content on the site. Also, I don't think we need the added rants/reviews of Member 'X' of their botched up wallpapering/decorating - a potential minefield!! (legally)

There's also been some recent blogs on culling dormant band/venue/fan accounts.

Which gets me onto the question.. should we even have "Venue" and "Fan" accounts on the site?

This is of course NorthwestBANDS (NWB) - and not northwestBandsVenuesFans (NWBVF)

Before, you all start with the... "You cant have Bands, without Venues and Fans". It's important to point out the site is already excluding (to some extent), other sectors of live music family e.g. Promoters, Managers, Djs, Solo Artists, Studios, Practice Rooms etc

What do we all think? Do we just cater for Bands? Do we carry on as normal, or should we have accounts for Promoters, Managers as well?

Comments

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# Posted by Steve Slinger - 21/08/2012, 17:22 (GMT)

Many people comment on this site being broken or needing x y and z but you still see new folk joining and still see the old stalwarts commenting and posting.
I dont see the site as being broken in any way so i wouldnt cull anything other than dormant accounts if you need to make performance improvements.
Anything you can add in addition to what is already here would be great.
Then - havent you been promising NWB v2.0 for a while ;-)


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# Posted by Account now closed - 21/08/2012, 17:24 (GMT)

the site should be for bands, venues , and fans only!!

to post things that are only music related and would be of possible benefit to the above.

there are loads of sites that offer other services and putting these services onto nwb is simply diluting the content and would make it a chore having to wade through all the crap to get to the bits that are of interest.

if i want to know some info on a band / venue or if i want to see if someone is selling a set of lights at a decnt price, this can be done fairly easily at present i dont need to know that joe blogs is doing a decent price on garden sheds or his brother has a wheel barrow going cheap i can look in loot for that.

Daz


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# Posted by Alyerpal - 21/08/2012, 17:29 (GMT)

Personally, I would like to see MORE venues and fans on here, if only to stop us getting lost up our own arseholes (even more than usual).

We DO have Promoters, Managers, Djs, Solo Artists, Studios, Practice Rooms etc on here already and they add to the mix and anyway, how do you define a band? No less than 2 people? No less than 3 people? Anthem and Havoc 51 are bands as far as I'm concerned and Mick Nash and James Luke contribute to this site. Are you going to aske these people to leave? (Just using these as examples - other duos and solo artists are available!)

I will happily stop flogging my other interest on here if that will help, but I did start it specifically for bands and this is the best place for me to advertise.

AYP


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# Posted by mr.nwb - 21/08/2012, 17:30 (GMT)

Still trying to work out what NWB 2.0 should be. Just had a look at the Blog Archives, and this "placeholder site" goes way back to April 2008! (over 4 years). YIKES!

To be honest, I'm surprised that no other developer/web person has tried to conjure up a site, or setup up a Facebook group.

Part of my thinking for NWB 2.0, was to make it more "band focussed" (like the first NWB/Lancashire Bands site). We had less of a community vibe, but we had a shed more people uploading music/photos/gigs. In a weird way, it made me go to more gigs to meet the band members face to face (as a fan). Rather than just hittng "like" on a profile.

Not for one minute saying that Fan/Venue accounts are out the window. Just, maybe some re-thinking of the structure.


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# Posted by Alyerpal - 21/08/2012, 17:33 (GMT)

Maybe some of the 'buttons' on the top could be 'acess only' ie - you only get to see the content when you click that button, rather than everything feeding into this main blog section.

So I could post a blog on backdrops and post it as 'for sale' and it would ONLY show up to anyone who clicked the 'Items for Sale' button.

If people abused this, you could delete their blogs and suspend them if necessary...

Just a thought.

AYP


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# Posted by Mick (ex Bad Horsie) - 21/08/2012, 17:36 (GMT)

I dunno. In the format it's in there is a lot of white noise. The conflicts do occasionally get resolved, but even if they don't things get aired and people get to see a different angle to think about.

I think a tradesmen tab would be useful, but only if the entries in it were not dynamic and interactive. Just an ad space for people we know to make their trades known.

One of the main things I think would be of benefit would be IP logging like a number of forums use so trolls can be sniffed out easier.


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# Posted by Off The Rails - 21/08/2012, 17:43 (GMT)

Just a thought Paul, This site can be very helpful for technical information, there is a wealth of expertise on here. what about a technical help section which is not deleted, many of the people on here have asked technical questions about equipment etc, then some weeks later somebody else has asked the same question, that would stop some of the repeated blogs asking the same question.


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# Posted by WAGONTOWN - 21/08/2012, 17:51 (GMT)

For Bands only ? So if 5 Landlords formed a band, they could get on the new NWB.
Or even worse , it could be 5 Trolls. A Blog Jacking pop up could be handy too.

What about encouraging people to sign Comments and Blogs, to show that its not the whole band doing the talking, half the time you dont even know what gender is tapping away there......Tel


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# Posted by egbert - 21/08/2012, 17:53 (GMT)

For me I'd like to see:

Better integration/mashupability with other sites particularly for profiles which could be mmuch more dynamic - read my twatter feed, latest fb status, here's our music and photo's but in a way which aggregates rather than adds to the number of profiles maintained and offers a better picture of whoever. Yes, some may say its reinventing wheels, but actually its not, its making the site more useful in ways it can't be at the mo given its stand alone nature - of course would be good to push stuff out as well as simply aggregate :-)

Some form of thumbs up and down system for dealing with those who make a show of themselves...

An NWB radio feature - see the reverbnation channels concept.

Other than those minor things and the few tweaks suggested above I'm happy with it :-)



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# Posted by egbert - 21/08/2012, 17:54 (GMT)

@offthe rails - not just techie help - thumbtupper, for example, has done us great service with legal advice


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# Posted by Tubthumper - 21/08/2012, 17:57 (GMT)

mikedolbear.com (probably the UK's biggest drummer forum) has a complete ban on any buying and selling on the forum itself - it was debated massively and the forum users took a poll and majority ruled. As far as I can gather it was to avoid the discussion forums getting clogged with people selling their wares and also to stop any exploitation which may present legal difficulties for the site owner. As a concession they have a classifieds section where people can list their items for sale free of charge and also an ebay discussion section where everyone laughably flouts the no selling rule by just posting links to each others goods. In short, the ban is a bit a farce.

I like the idea of using fellow musicians in the trades, not as a means to get mates rates but as a means to hopefully ensuring I would get a quality and accountable service from someone I imagine would do good honest work for proper pay rather than potentially face any fallout in the music community. In that sense I have nothing against people advertising their services but would prefer to see it in a dedicated section that can be avoided if desired.

Similarly, I'd like gig promos to be put in a section away from the main blog traffic. I've always viewed gig promos as pointless when there's a gig guide but understand others' differing views. But I think it stymies the none self promoting discussion blogs when a "good" blog can be bounced off the first page in a matter of a few hours particularly at weekends.

As a potentially unpopular idea that I admit I haven't thought through much at all - how about an area of the site accessible only to those who pay a membership fee for the purposes of picking up gigs. IE if venues need a band their ad goes into a section that only paying members get to see - that way the website gets revenue and it might deter some bands who are here simply to try and pick up gigs and not always to contribute in any other meaningful way (if indeed there's anything wrong with that?). I know the membership fee has been discussed before and is fraught with difficulty but it might be worth further debate in view of your proposed update.


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# Posted by mr.nwb - 21/08/2012, 18:06 (GMT)

The problem with comparing NWB to Reverbnation and Myspace (in its hayday), is that they have a shed loads of cash to spend on development / servers / adminstration. So things which seem like obvious features (like an MP3 player), are quite tricky to get right. Especially if you have more than x-members bashing the site

At the moment, it's just me who manages the upkeep. (The same it's has been over the past 8 years)

I trialled some administrators/editors/new contributors. But, they either got bored, boo-ed off, or I didn't have the resources to pay them properly.

Anyways, I'm kind of drifting off topic from posted question (in true NWB style)

:-)


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# Posted by Off The Rails - 21/08/2012, 18:07 (GMT)

@Tubthumper, I quite like your last idea, you see quite a few bands come on here and say "we want gigs" and thats the last you hear from them.


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# Posted by 45s - 21/08/2012, 18:28 (GMT)

The Trade Section idea was to raise some funds for this site as well as promoting our Firms/Companies. If this was conducted by pms, I can't see how that would dilute the main page. Loads of NWBers have pm'd me with phone numbers and requests for quotes.

Regarding Bands Only, my answer is no, imo,

Rick


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# Posted by egbert - 21/08/2012, 18:35 (GMT)

@Mr NWB - no, appreciate that but there are simpler things which *might* be able to be done like the ability to add a widget through <embed> codes or to use the APIs people like FB, RN, tumblr and Twitter provide. Yeah, I know, HTML5ing the whole site would be very time consuming ;-(

I must admit that although I've only been using most of those sites a few months I love the way that I do something on one site and its propagated to all the others leaving me only ever having to do something in one single place.

@thumbtupper depends on the gig being advertised. I discovered a band through a single posting when I was at a loose end but I totally agree with the 47 blogs monday through wednesday telling us about the 2 gigs a particular band has that weekend followed up with more on a sunday telling us they have done those gigs and wasn't it fab!

Getting back on topic it seems to me that there are some players on here who, without intending malice I'm sure, scare a lot of people off. Anyone remember the Chester Hangman blogs? How about that geezer trying to get something going under the viaduct in Stockport? You're all middle class wankers? There's a long list somewhere... There are a few bands on here I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire let alone go see - not because of their ability or their setlist but for the way they "promote" their "brand" when talking "publicly" and I'm sure I'm not the only one who applies those sort of filters when reading blogs!



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# Posted by Howard - Sound and Light Produ... - 21/08/2012, 18:59 (GMT)

1. i;m not a band or venue and though a fan that's not why i'm here. i use the site to make contacts, purchase second hand gear, attract users to my rehearsal unit. in return i have, i hope, offered advice where i feel that i have useful information to offer.
- it's up to NWB to decide whther i and people like me should be part of the picture.

2. I will no longer engage in debate (learned my lesson there - one only gets a offensive behaviour for ones trouble) but when i talk to bands and colleagues who use the site less - it's because of the extremely loose ship run here. there are advantages to that and disadvantages. i like the forums that have a more civilised approach (abuse and personal insults removed, contributor warned and banned if they fail to comply) - others like the 'anything goes'. In my own area expertese i would draw your attention to the blue room forum as an example of a small forum dealing with music issues and doing so without causing hurt or offense. it obviously serves a different purpose than NWB and i cross both worlds but it is a good example of how i would hope to see a forum work

3. clarity by division of forums may be useful - for sale, business matters, technical queries, bands/venues wanted, bands venues available.


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# Posted by Laser Monkeys - 21/08/2012, 19:09 (GMT)

For what it's worth, i'm beginning to come round to the idea of a membership fee - as long as its not astronimcal obviously! Do you think this would prevent the 'white noise' that Mick mentioned earlier? I tend to find most of it pretty entertaining at best and informative at worst...

John


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# Posted by viking - 21/08/2012, 20:26 (GMT)

@ mr nwb-"Hello and welcome to NWB (Northwest Bands, UK). NWB is a free resource for bands, venues and fans to advertise gigs, discuss local information, and connect with one another"


i seem to recall it took you quite a while to format the welcome on the home page-trying to encapsulate your vision of what nwb was about? unless you are going to throw the baby out with the bath water-my feeling is the format works-just needs some fine tuning? and,maybe-foster the spirit that provided so much fun (and therefore, created good relations) in the early days.

i'm not,necessarily, saying you go back to the days of "virtual parties" (you remember?) although, maybe, some of the loss of "camaraderie" could be due to that lack of connection many people seem to feel on here?

the main thrust of the site, i feel, is the enjoyment of , playing, listening to and promoting, live music-as it should be-and that means involving ALL concerned. one should beware of burying that under a plethora of other (albeit worthy?) topics and losing sight of why most of us are here.


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# Posted by THE WIGANER - 21/08/2012, 20:35 (GMT)

If we weren't on here a load of you wouldn't have got gigs. Could rename the site North West Unemployed Bands?


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# Posted by Tubthumper - 21/08/2012, 21:38 (GMT)

@ The Wiganer - I know from Reload's point of view that that is a massive overstatement. I think we've got about 3 gigs through using this website over the past 2 years.

I suspect the same will be said for a great many other bands. What the site does do, however, and very usefully in its own right, is to raise awareness of which venues are active on the gigging scene at any given time. But its still good old fashioned repeat bookings/going in to jam nights/visiting pubs supporting other bands/chatting with the licensee over the bar that I anticipate many will say is the source of the vast majority of people's gigs.


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# Posted by Alyerpal - 21/08/2012, 22:07 (GMT)

I'm not sure I agree with you there Tubs.

You only have to look at the 20 or 30 'PM'd you' that follow every 'venue looking for bands' post to realise that a great many people/bands who come on here benefit greatly from any venue offering gigs.

As you rightly point out, the majority of established bands have a circuit and enjoy repeat bookings, but I have to say that I have contacted new venues for Kingpin (and got gigs - maybe 6 in the past 2 years,and I think that's a lot for gigs you don't have to knock on doors for) because, as they rightly say, variety is the spice of life and new places to play keep you on your toes, like new songs in your set list.

As I have said on many occasions, what we need is MORE venues and MORE fans to keep us overindulged rock stars down to earth.

AYP


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# Posted by Ross! - 21/08/2012, 22:25 (GMT)

If you're looking for a Developer that will happily work for free as an admin or help developing i'm here. For free of course. Would love to work on an Itunes App. Ross


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# Posted by THE WIGANER - 22/08/2012, 00:10 (GMT)

@tubthumper. Since I came on here about March I have booked at least 15 acts I never heard of before. Some of them got multiple bookings. Maybe you're not doing it right????


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# Posted by Tubthumper - 22/08/2012, 00:18 (GMT)

I'm sure you'd love to think that but as it happens we don't need to. It's very rare that the rest of the band come on here and I don't use telephones and thereby have next to nothing to do with gig bookings - we generally fill our gig diary with venues we've played at for years and through word of mouth and private functions. Occasionally a trusted fellow muso here will have a fantastic gig at somewhere new like the Bowling Green in which case we'll get in touch with the venue about the possibility of a booking.

It seems that it is you who has benefitted from the site as much as if not more than the bands.


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# Posted by Jez - 22/08/2012, 00:21 (GMT)

with regards to the initial post - I'm on here as a fan, purely because when I first started using this site, it was on my old bands account and I didn't necessarily want to been seen as "my view is their view".
As of now, I am still trying to get a band together and have side projects on the go, where would I stand?
With regards to scoring gigs, this site was a great resource in so much as working out which venues may suit or old band and which wouldn't. From there we were able to get a foot in one or two doors but truth be told, most of our gigs came from persuading venues not on here, that weren't really "band" venues to take a punt. That way we built up a small circuit and didn't have to do the foot on the ladder bit.


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# Posted by THE STORIES ,The very best! of... - 22/08/2012, 00:48 (GMT)

Just leave the site has it is ,maybe clear a few dead venues /pubs out of the site but all in all a great site ,by the way my sister needs a baby sitter for next week ? ...see what i mean .


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# Posted by 45s - 22/08/2012, 01:38 (GMT)

@ The Stories, lol,

Rick. sponsored by www.rhlroofsolutions.co.uk


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# Posted by THE WIGANER - 22/08/2012, 08:55 (GMT)

@tubthumper I never said we didn't benefit. It's mutually beneficial, that's the whole point? My original comment "if we weren't on here a load of you wouldn't have got gigs" is not a "massive ovestatement" - you answered "from Reload's point of view". I didn't say anything about Reload???? I said " a lot of you". In my view 15 is a lot in only a few months. I wouldn't "love to think that" at all - I don't really give a toss how busy your band is - I don't even know you. My comment about not doing it right referred to using NWB to get gigs because that was the context in which you commented. If you don't actually use NWB for that purpose then why did you bother commenting on its efficacy? By that I mean that you can't possibly be in a position to make an informed comment as you don't use it. I am sure plenty of venues and bands believe NWB is a very useful tool for booking gigs. I certainly do.


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# Posted by Tubthumper - 22/08/2012, 12:07 (GMT)

@ The Wiganer - time and again on this forum we see bands making comments along the line of

-they're aren't enough venues on the forum
-venues don't reply to speculative messages seeking gigs
-venues don't reply to bands answering "band wanted" ads
-the same bands repeatedly securing said last minute cancellation gigs.

Of course I can only speak from Reload's point of view. I wouldn't presume to try and answer from anyone else's but in my 3 years here the same comments crop up time and again which go against your first statement of "If we weren't on here a load of you wouldn't have got gigs. Could rename the site North West Unemployed Bands?" which seemed to be an inflammatory statement in it's tone.

Bands managed fine before the inception of this site and will continue to manage fine in it's absence. In that sense yes I believe your statement to be inaccurate. In light of your responses I can see it was my mistake to try and discuss the point as it seems apparent you were just being provocative.

Clearly you're determined to interpret anything I post as a direct attack rather than an attempt to debate. I shall do us both a favour and leave you to your belief that you are always right in all things and bow to your delusion of omnipotence.


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# Posted by Willow (of somebig™Fish) (Reti... - 23/08/2012, 12:16 (GMT)

Whilst not wishing to pull the blog down the usual descent into name calling, well ok then maybe that's what I do wish .... The majority of The Wiganer's posts that I've read recently have had a rather confrontational tone. Just an observation - some of them may have been validly so.


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# Posted by JCartysRoadie - 25/08/2012, 00:23 (GMT)

Said it before, site name is not ideal for bands promoting their gigs, If I were a music fan looking for local live music, I'd search in browser for 'gigs' and assume 'bands' was for bands not fans. There are very few fans on here looking for gigs to attend, as opposed to band members advertising gigs to effectively other bands. I don't know if its technically possible to have a split website, section for fans / gigs where bands and venues can advertise and fans can ask questions / review gigs and another section for bands to discuss equipment, technique, etc, searched in browser by either NW Bands or NW Gigs.

Steve.


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# Posted by DaveH - 23/05/2013, 11:45 (GMT)

Hi, thankfully it looks like the site has been left the same due to me (a fan) not being bumped off nwb. I thought I would just add that I look at local venues from the gigs guide to find who is on and try to go as often as possible to go so indirectly the band might get more gigs as the pub gets all the profits from my beer drinking. I can't find any other site that compares to nwb for this so bravo.
Also I have tried to give input to the site by blogging a new website for musical instruments etc which I bought some items cheaper than I found in the usual round of shops (mic stand and capo) so benefits the bands (possibly).
I love singing but due to being s**t at remembering the words to songs, I have remained it the world of karaoke (Please don't knock it, I'm sure plenty of singers started out there) and recently learning guitar. Hmmmm starting another blog comes to mind..............


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